15 minutes with . . .
Stefon Harris
We first spoke with vibraphonist Stefon Harris in 2009, by cell phone, as he drove through New York on an errand, careful not to be gone too long from his wife, who was home about six months pregnant with their first child. We spoke again in 2011, this time he was stationary, the baby was healthy, and he was engaging in many projects again, including his third year contributing to the SFJAZZ Collective.
Precision – and aim – are essential to a vibraphonist, whose wood-on-metal hammerinig doesn't allow the kind of "give" possible by bending or lipping a string or wind instrument. Perhaps that explains why Harris is so articulate in his interviews. For whatever reason, his comments were valuable contributions to articles on a Blue Note Records anniversary tour (which he was not part of), his band Blackout's 2009 appearance, a story on the Segerstrom Center for the Arts' 25th Anniversary, and the SFJazz show coming in March 2012.
The two interviews have been mixed together for the following '15 minutes with . . . '
CRISTOFER GROSS/THEATERTIMES: You have been a Blue Note Recording artist, but left the label.
STEFON HARRIS: The reason I liked them was that the head of this label, Bruce Lundvall, was absolutely respectful of the artist, where he understood the concept that we’re here to create an opportunity for artists to document. And they were not overly involved in my projects at all. It was really a matter of, ‘What is in your imagination? Let’s document that.’ That’s a rare situation I think in the industry. So for me to have that type of opportunity at such a young age, it created a situation where I could develop my voice as an artist without the influence, or the over-influence of the industry itself. So, I think that they are very, very important in terms of shaped this current generation. Of course, myself and a Jason Moran and Greg Osby, we’ve all had influences on the people who are a little bit younger than us coming up now. But the fact that we have been able to document our own voices, with clarity and honesty, is I think due in large part to having a leader like Bruce Lundvall who respects the artist.
GROSS: I read him the bandmembers for the tour:
HARRIS: I can say positive things about the label, but since none of those guys are on Blue Note except for Charlap. And Charlap is recently on Blue Note in the last few years. So, it’s a little disconcerting that a label would develop a roster and then have a tour like this and not continue to support their roster. And it’s an indication – and it’s not just Blue Note, it’s a sign of the field itself – it’s an indication that the money is really coming from the catalogue and not the current artists. But I’m just giving you an honest answer.
GROSS: I guess the line-up speaks to the point you’re making, that the label isn’t doing what it could to support current artists so much as the catalogue.
HARRIS:It’s about the catalogue, absolutely. I feel very comfortable with what I said in terms of being given a great opportunity to develop my voice. And not only myself, but if you look at the Jackie Terrassons and the other artists on the label, we were all allowed that type of freedom.
GROSS: I saw a quote on the Red Dust review on ‘All About Jazz’ that said "Blue Note is proactively supporting young artists while also maintaining their proven stable of artists and reissue programs.” So at that time, you were indicative of that process.
HARRIS: I would say that these are trying times and with EMI having been bought out recently, it’s very difficult to predict what’s going to happen next. So you can’t say that they won’t support. But I will reiterate the idea that I think Bruce Lundvall was a very important – and is still a very important figure – at that label in terms of really being the voice and the person who has a real passion for the music itself. When you lose someone like a Lundvall from the mix, then I’m really not sure what will happen.
GROSS: But with the new corporate structure around him you can’t tell what’s going on.
HARRIS: Exactly. You can’t tell for sure what’s going on. And this is a big anniversary so you don’t know what’s going to happen after. The only thing that I would request, in all fairness, Cris, is that when you use a quote from me, to put after that that I’m now on Concord.
GROSS: You played 20 instruments before you were a teenager. How did you gravitate to the vibes given that it seems to be one of the more logistically challenging instruments? That’s got to be harder than a piano to find in practice rooms or lug around to school.
HARRIS: I think that’s the euphemism of the year, man. [laugh] I think it’s a testament to the power of mentorship. I met a gentleman by the name of Richard Albagli who was a percussionist, and he became my private teacher when I was in the 8th grade. And his passion and love of music was so strong that I just chose the instrument that he played, really. To me the instruments really aren’t that important. Ultimately it’s about the story that’s being told. So, if I weren’t a vibraphonist, I’d be a pianist or bass player, I would be expressing myself in some way. Maybe a writer. Who knows? [laughs]
GROSS: There’s also the technical appreciation . . .
HARRIS: Obviously, after all these years of playing I appreciate it in more than just a technical manner. But I think it’s a series of random events that brought me to be playing the vibraphone at this point.
GROSS: Do you practice any other instruments these days?
HARRIS: Yeah. The majority of my practice is done at the piano, actually. Most of my study of harmony and writing music is done at the piano. And, I practice vibes just for technical means.
GROSS: What’s the rule of thumb on number of sticks a vibraphonist usually uses?
HARRIS: I play with one mallet, two mallets, three mallets and four. The most you can old is two in each hand. It’s totally dictated by the need of the music.
GROSS: So you can strike a four-note chord . . .
HARRIS: Yes.
GROSS: And you have a sustain pedal so you can add into that chord . . .
HARRIS: Yes you can.
GROSS: Not that you should have to teach me what the vibes are all about . . . I’m sorry to do this to you, but it just came out . . .
[Laughter]GROSS: I know that you had on your first album all original stuff plus one by Bobby Hutcherson. . . Since he’s a Californian and I think you joined SFJazz to take up what might be called his chair, what has he meant to you and how are you two similar or different?
HARRIS: Well, again, it’s another great testament to the power of heroes. I think Bobby Hutcherson is someone who on the vibraphone itself, technically, brought it to a completely different level. But his influence is much greater than the instrument. I think his sense of melody and sense of timing and wit and his gift harmonically is really, really special, and has very little to do with the vibraphone. So that’s one of the reasons that he’s someone that I gravitated to. That he didn’t play any "vibraphone-like" stuff. And also, his sound . . . if I am similar to him I hope that it’s in spirit. I hope that I have watched an artist like him and learned to have that sense of freedom and that sense of exploration and curiosity that he has about music, and apparently about life as well.
But, yeah, I consider myself a musician first, so if you really get into a lot of my influences, they’re not vibraphonists. I’m a huge Miles Davis fan. I have all of his stuff obviously, but in terms of the type of bandleader that I want to be, that I aspire to be is totally influenced by Miles Davis. . . .
Coltrane is another hero of mine. I think that he is probably one of the most articulate, emotionally articulate musicians of the century. So I’m looking for what the specific that I want to tell my story I go to whoever’s [expert?] at that. So if it’s about emotional expression, I go to Coltrane.
GROSS: I haven’t asked this question before. Who would you want to gig with tonight if you could find them live or dead, who would be fun to learn from or connect with them? Sounds like Coltrane and Davis would be fun.
HARRIS: Well, sure, of course. But honestly I’m not the most nostalgic type of person. The people I would name are probably people who are alive right now. My peers, like Kenny Garrett, I’m a big fan of Kenny Garrett. I haven’t played with him. I’ve had the opportunity to play with a lot of my peers. Well, Herbie. I haven’t had a chance to play with Herbie Hancock. I would love to play with Herbie Hancock. And, ah, Wayne Shorter, I haven’t had the chance to play with. So, I tend to gravitate to living musicians I want to play with right now.
But, you know, one person who I didn’t get a chance to actually play music with who has passed away is Shirley Horn. Absolutely love Shirley Horn. Shirley Horn is a major influence on me in terms of learning how to phrase. I listen to that CD Shirley Horn with Strings: Here’s to Life. I wore that out! And I would just listen to it again and again. And listen to the space and the timing. I really learned a lot about music being used as a tool to tell a story from Shirley Horn. . . . .
GROSS: So let’s talk about some of these living musicians you play with. I think you’re bringing out your regular band . . .
HARRIS: That’s right, the group Black Out.
GROSS: So this isn’t a pick-up situation, these are guys you really know and work with. What characterizes your relationship with these players?
HARRIS: Well certainly chemistry, first and foremost. There’s nothing like the test of time and given time and chemistry together and the opportunity to develop, it’s absolutely amazing. We have a very strong sense of intuition with one another where we can almost hear where someone is going before they even go there. And when you have that kind of chemistry a lot of magic happens because it’s very unpredictable. When you get a sense of where something is going to land, maybe you can jump in that space first and catch them. [laughs] So you actually end up in the space together. So it does not have the sense of five people getting on the stage together who don’t really know each other.
GROSS: There’s not that tentativeness of waiting to see what someone likes to do first . . .
HARRIS: No. There’s definitely a lot of risk that happens when we play and I think that’s because we’re learned to really trust each other. Like we take chances that are totally unpredictable, and sometimes they work, sometimes they don’t. But we trust each other enough to know that somewhere on the other side someone is going to pick up the ball and we’re going to be all right and we’re going to keep moving forward as a team.
GROSS: And the music gets that exciting edge when just that kind of thing is going on anyway.
HARRIS: That’s right. And we’re all basically of the same generation, not that you can’t work with musicians of different generations, but I think we all have a similar story to tell and we can relate directly to one another in a way that I think is special and really happens when you have people who are like brothers with one another.
And so you have Marc Cary on key and piano, who is from Washington DC, has a lot of go-go influence, R&B influence in his playing. Of course he’s played with Betty Carter, Abby Lincoln, a lot of great straight-ahead jazz musicians as well, but he brings all of that other stuff that I really appreciate.Terreon Gully, on drums is someone who, as I understand, learned to play at church. My mother’s a Pentecostal minister so I grew up in a church as well. So there’s a certain sound to gospel music, a certain feeling and emotional commitment that comes from Gospel music that we’re able to reference and relate to one another. So [if] we go there at any given moment on the bandstand, everybody is together.
Then you have someone like Casey Benjamin on alto saxophone and vocorder. He’s very influenced by Prince, Stevie Wonder . . . I’m a huge Stevie Wonder fan. So there are times where we may randomly go into a part of a Stevie Wonder tune and we all know it. Of course we’re all united by jazz, that’s a given. But our influences really are much more indicative of our era or our time, not only Stevie, but we’ve gone into quotes from Missy Elliott tunes and it can be anything at any given moment. And that makes it really unique, special, unpredictable for us and we know therefore that it’s unpredictable for the audience. So it becomes this amazing journey that we all get on together.
GROSS: I was just listening to Curtis Mayfield today because I’d done an interview. Is that someone you’ve ever tried to work a song out of? He’s got quite a lot.
HARRIS: What a voice. I need to check him out. I’ve obviously heard a lot of Curtis Mayfield but I haven’t recorded any of his music. I need to first document a Stevie song. Stevie is my hero. One of the greatest musicians ever, and certainly one of my most influential people. He’s got a boatful of them.
GROSS: You’ll find plenty of treasure there.
HARRIS: When you have that kind of energy and you’re referencing things of our lifetime I think the audience can actually related to that much more. There’s nothing wrong with ghost bands and things of that nature, but I honestly can’t play a lot of the older music with the same level of sincerity that I demand of myself. Many times it becomes a song that I like that I have the technical ability to play, obviously, but I don’t have an emotional connection to that piece of music. It’s just an intellectual exercise. And I put as much emotion into it as I can. But on the record Evolution, we recorded a Sting song called Until, which is from the movie King Leopold, and I had a physical experience where I was at the movie with my wife watching it, so I remember the characters, I remember the costumes, I remember the day in the theater. It’s just something about it that [allopped ] it for me. And when I play it, it feels that way to me. Not that I can’t play a standard, and there are some standards that pull something from inside of me that are timeless, like certain love songs, it doesn’t matter when they were written, it’s about something that is universal that is never going to change.
GROSS: That’s right.
HARRIS: But there are songs that are written now that I think are unbelievably great quality and I think more than documentation.
GROSS: You going to be having a baby soon . . . ?
HARRIS: Yeah. It’s going to be my first. So we’ll see what kind of influence that has on things.
GROSS: Well it’ll have some on your sleep, that’s one thing.
HARRIS: That’s for sure, right?
One thing that’s changed already is I’m working my butt off at home, just practicing as hard as I ever have in my lifetime to get as much work in as I can now.
GROSS: Well, you could be lucky. I was lucky . . . I mean you have to get up in the middle of the night, but not for long. If the baby’s chollicky it’s like the world’s turned upside down, if you don’t it’s a pretty good flow. I mean, it sounds like you’ve got a pretty good spirit, so hopefully you’ll be rewarded with the right kind of kid [laugh].
HARRIS: [Laughing.] Well we’re looking forward to it.
GROSS: When is it due?
HARRIS: March 2009
GROSS: Oh, wow, so just a few weeks before the show. We’ll if you’re dozing on the stand we’ll know why.
HARRIS: Oh no. [Laughs.] In fact it’s another one of those interesting challenges as a musician. I’ve decided that I’ve cleared my calendar. I’ve cut back on a lotof work so that I can be around to be a father. It’s a great experience and for many musicians it’s a tough choice. Because you’re balancing income and . . . we’ll it’s a challenge. But for me I really have made it a priority so I’m only taking the gigs that I feel are special and are going to mean something unique to me.
GROSS: Is there another disc coming out?
HARRIS: Yes. We’re going into the studio in December and we’re documenting our first for Concord. And so the group that is coming to Orange County will be recording.
GROSS: And will that be on the street by April? Or does it take longer than that?
HARRIS: No, it takes a little longer. It will probably be out in September.
GROSS: Well it’s been a real pleasure to talk to you.
HARRIS: You too Cris, nice to meet you.